WW2 GENERAL discussion

[DAM]

Ok here are a few rules for this thread:
- keep the spamming low
-no bull shit
i would prefer to hear some real intersting shit and maybe tactical ideas here OK (i am a history fanatic who is eager to learn and GCSE history and doin enough for me)


Here's is one question with a suprising answer:
at the end of WW2 which nation had the most advanced AIR technology ?(recently disclosed apparently)


As u might of read my oppinions on another thread about how i dnt believe the axis would of been able to invade britain even if USA didn't help.
, what do U think bout it?

Oh yeh if u were AXIS what would of been ur general plan of attack to win europe? (the biggest cock up was to in anyway start a war with RUSSIA until had anhialated EVERY1 lse in europe.

[starkey]

hum, good thread mate! :\

I agree with you that the Axis would never have been able to invade Britain, this is because i think that it would have taken up too many men and resourses to actually get to britain. they would not have been able to get the men onto land fast enough, or enough men for that matter.

I think Hitler could have succeeded, if he hadn't tried to fight a war on two fronts. If he had massed all his troops towards France straight away then he would have takenover France before any of the other countries could have militarised to come to their aid.

But thats just my view..... :(

[DAM]

Wrong there m8, The german army was the best equiped and most trained and proffessional army in the world at the time.
They also had the best tanks in the world also.
my argument was that the german army COULD beat us BUT t couldn't GET to england in the first place.
Your 2nd comment actually happened, we arrived france unprepared and were easily defeated (dunkirk remind of anything?).
The ONLY reason D-DAY succeded was becase hitler (the mad fucker) liked his panzers so much that he liked to keep personal control.
SO when mr rommel wanted to smash us to pieces and destroy our hopes of freedom by running us into the see with his unbeatable panzers before we got a beach head........NO the panzers only obeyed direct orders from hitler.
we got a beach head-panzers came-...2 late we but fucked them.

(BY the way if sum who knows their stuff think im wrong I WELCOME their opinions im only eager to learn)

[Wardy]

yeah i can back up ur thought about the panzers and another factor why hitler didnt take out basically the entire british army at dunkirk (400,000 troops) was because he kept the panzers and he was very close friends with the leader of the luftwaffe and he let them go in.but we were also very lucky that the troops got off the beach because of all the little boats coming to help.Quite a few coming from here.guernsey.but we also lost a lot of men and equipment that we left on the beach.and the men had a hard time getting of the beaches into the boats because the boats didnt wanna come in 2 close the men had to swim out and with there heavy heavy thick woolen trench coats weighing them down!!!


more to come..... bells just gone

[Suicdal_Maniac]

oh noes dont get me started, ok buggers too late (ive had this discussion a few times with different ppl).

just to answer ur first question, i think germany had it but thts just off the top of my head or at least in their experimental weapons, hitler had some nutty ideas

anyway whether hitler could have invaded britain, well the battle of britain insured our air supremacy in 1940. however personally i think he could have defeated britain, its well known he had plans to invade, cant remember the name of the operation off the top of my head. Everyone whose done modern european history know at this point the german army was the best around as James pointed out. The main problem would have been securing a beach head and actually landing the troops and keeping them supplied, Britian had both air and naval superiority without both of these Germany would never had a chance in hell of successfully landing.

Why Germany Lost the War:

well theres 3 reasons,

1) its shit allies, ie Italy, causing it to waste men, resources and time pulling it out of trouble in Greece and delaying the invasion of the USSR
2) the invasion of the USSR, hitler was pig headed and refused to let hte men retreat at points
3) he declared war on the USA, thts simple u dont declare war on one of the biggest nation's in the world unless you have too Hitler had previously sought to avoid a war with the USA, and could have left his Allies to fend for themselves.

ive actualyl got to do some history for myself now and not stuff off my head laters.

[DAM]

Hitler s problem was that he was up against 2 many people (Britain russia and USA were the main problems)
What he should of done was make sure he had europ secure (not UK) THEN he should of built up a better navy than us (He actually started doing this which was easy with the vast ressources he had)
Russia was a country interested ONLY in its own gains so as long as they ere happy and knew that Germany was stronger than her he didn't have to worry about her attacking germany( WHY THE FUCK HE attacked russia and double crossed Stalin i will never understand.....ressources in the caucauses Maybe??? spelling i know)



BTW Japan had the most advanced AIR technology at the end of world war 2, They had advanced JET engines and rocket systems.
If they had been able to start mass producing their new planes before being NUKED then it could of turned the tide of the pacific war.
They ahd developed JET bombers that outflew even USA fighters and AA fire which would of meant they could of ANNIHALATED the USA navy.
Tehy also had developed quick response JET FIGHTERS (so maybe could of taken out the B-52 who NUKED EM)

(there is a few mistakes in the information above CBA to correct atm )
Cheers bye

[Suicdal_Maniac]

Hitler invaded Russia against the advice of his militart advisors, he did so because of his beliefs, communism would be the enemy of the Western World no matter what happened and tht the only way to stop the communist from attacking was to exterminate them. Hitler believed as did the Western Powers after WWII that Stalin was following the communist ideal to spread world revolution which in numerous occasions was shown as not true he was more interested in keeping the USSR alive and as James said looking after itself.

argh my head is pounding way too much i cant concentrate on this god damn programming, starkey suicide bombers are completely different to the kamikaze pilots that the japanese had.

[disjunto]

down with communism and all that other dictatorship crap :)

WW2 is again another subject i should know alot about since i only did it in history about 6 months ago.

PS: James, GCSE is a POS really

[Suicdal_Maniac]

heh its one i know too much about, been doing modern european history for past 5 years god help me :'(

thou its always nice to do an independant study if any1 wants to talk about the american revolution or civil war find me :P

[paroles]

i think tht th germans probably culd have landed on british soil but @ a very hevy cost an that their beach hed wuld'nt have lasted very long they wuld have needed sum bloody brilliant tactics to have takin england 4 sure

[ghost]

I wouldn't have put it past rommel to hold the beaches, but with the RAF would come down and kick some arse. The Germans could have landed, but they wouldn't have held the country for long.

[Suicdal_Maniac]

it seems you've all forgotten britains one main force, its navy, britain being an island has always had a strong navy, im not too sure if at this point the Bismark was ready or not but even then Germany's navy was not much, as for transport ships they did not have any specialized beach landing ships.
Any seabourne operation would have to involve a miracle to stop the British navy from interfering, air cover would have to be immense as well (would have to cover the British navy AND protect the troop ships from the RAF) The Luffawte (sp) or German airforce had already lost the battle of britain in 1940 do u think they could actually even try covering both navies and fighting the RAF at the same time.
About the only kind of operation i could imagine working would be an airbourne one (i.e. parachutes) but that would again involve air supremacy, which they didnt have, so would have been costly and keeping the men supplied would have been extremely difficult if not impossible, it basically would have to have been done by the German elite, the SS etc.

[DAM]

You can't invade and occupy and country by PArachiting alone.
And yes even though it isn't mentioned much i found out ealier that the channel was basically patroled CONSTANTLY by The Roya Navy.
The bismark was sunk and its sister ship (the Turpitz) was severly damaged and then finally sunk in a port in norway.
The german navy was COMPLETLY useless compared to the Highly trained and more experienced Royal Navy.
And yes as we know they couldn't of parachuted because the RAF was winning the battle of britain.

If i had to devise a plan for the germans i would of started building as many ships of possible in the north sea and prepared an air force.
IF they were able to do that then you could Parachute at Key points and sneak past the Royal navy and land some troops there ( i guess once u get past the UK ships and you are on land....WTF can they do except blockade you there) BUt even then it wouldn't work, i can begin to imagine how hard british troops would fight on home turf AND we forget that the americans had thousands of troops stationed in the UK all preparing for D-Day even MONTHS before it happened

[Suicdal_Maniac]

aye i know they cant occupy a country but airbourne operations alone (2day would be a diff matter i think) but it wud have been the easiest way for Germany to secure a landing zone. once that was done the navy (which they would have to have built up as you said as it was pathetic apart from bismark n tirptiz (sp) and they eventually got sunk anyway.
interesting fact, one german sub could have changed the whole story, it had one last torpedo decided to sink a supply ship, on it ways bk to its base it passed the british aircraft carrier, and had a clean shot, that eventually went on to fuck up the bismark. ive read too many books :(

[DAM]

well this is a DECENT thread going to waste atm so thought i d ressurect it.
I ve just borrowed a few books and bought 1 on War in general. 1 of the books (massive) is just on WWII.
Seeing as im ill today thought id get some reading done, and found my self reading about how Norway and some of the low countrys fell to NAzis Control.
* Nice 1 Bman and Wodz Your countrys had some good spirit
*Belgium, unlucky ur a bit dimwitted compared to the amazing German tactics (eg. when they invaded and landed ON TOP with gliders on your fortress thingy, ill edit soon and get the exact name.
Also watched a program concentrating on norway and how they resisted. A local Sniper school near Narvik with the Aid of some lost British troops trying to find their way back held out against a whole German Division for 2 days when they were trying to push up between 2 Hills ( a pass no?) It had 1 of the actual snipers telling the story, RESPECT for those dudes they ABSOLUTLY owned the Nazi bastards.


Also well done Finland they held out against Russias red army who were FAR
SUPERIOR in numbers. Because of their Local Knowledge of the Land and layout. Ill get the exact numbers later. Im just trying to start this convo off again.

Here s a question for those who can answer it.
* How Would YOU of thought events would have change if the Norwegians had listened to the Dutch and Mobilized BEFORE the germans attacked in stead of During the invasion?*

[Sparkey {NL}]

I dont think America did help axis 2 invade, that cant be since America......
Hmzz maybe your right, but America is a nation wich has his own ideals, so dont think they would help axis in a war and let them invade Britain :eek:

Technoligie in the air, must have been the russian country aight?? :rolleyes:

[Suicdal_Maniac]

hmm not too sure how much of ur post i understand sparkey, soz :(

i dont think there was ever a possibility of america allying with Germany just a case of whether or not it stayed neutral.

and air supremacy doubt it was ever russia must have been england or states thou germany did have some new stuff in development.

[DAM]

LOL no1 had a go at answering my Question.


Germany had complete air Superiority through the beginning and most of the war, but their production rates couldn't keep up with their losses (blitz=mistake) due to us bombing their Supply lines.
And then us and the americans has a MASSIVE advantage in the air and is 1 of THE main reasons we had so many victorys in the laters years of the war.

Germany had some few JET fighters towards the end of the war but 2 few numbers so not effective.

BTW, mentioned earlier: Japan had EXTREMLY advanced Aircraft at the end of the war such as JET bombers so fast that if they ahd mass produced them they could of annhialted the USA Fleet cos they were so fast they could escape FLAK-AA Fire. And fighters wouldn't be able to catch em. They also had of course JEt fighters. Lots of conspiracys exist as to HOW they obtained this technology that was SO advanced for its time.
American would NEVER of joined the NAZIS due to its very strong Political views towards extreme partys.(especially Comunism lol) +they liked the british

[starkey]

ah but America and Russia had the technology, e.g. the atomic bomb, and they also had bombers similar to Japans!

[Suicdal_Maniac]

aye wardy i dont know enough about it to attempt answering so aint gonna bother putting together some bodged shite :P

[starkey]

er its starkey, not wardy, i don t think hes posted here!?!

[DAM]

Think he meant me.
Starkey think you should also shut up LOL.
WW2, russians had no technology of ther own about the atmoic Bomb
After the war some american scienists thought it would be safer with the more super powers holding NUCLEAR weapons the better (which is right if u think about it)
So they sold technology to russians after the war.
During the war, russia had THE shittest air force and Navy out of any1, they concentrates SOLEY on their Infantry and Armored divisions.
Although after the war russia AGAIn stol technology off the americans sumhow and Stalin invited Churchill and The american president to come see his new Bomber force............made of planes looking VERY similar to B17 Fliying fortresses LOL (So u can guess)

[Suicdal_Maniac]

lol shit soz james i blame the drink :rolleyes:

hmm did they sell it to them? cause i dont think they did it as it wasnt until like 1953 (going from memory so dont quote me) that the Russians developed nuclear weapons and by this time the cold war was in full swing.

as for the russian air force if i remember correctly they did a little trick, they had the bombers go up, loop around out of sight, land and then go again making their air force look a lot bigger so as to make the americans think they had a decent air force. Also i think Stalin developed a lot of hmm developmental planes? lots of one off's that could never be made in mass production so as to show off and to break a lot of records (like fastest jet or w/e i guess)

i wouldnt be surprised if they stole tech of the yanks from crashed planes or spy's or w/e as it was the cold war by around this time.

[DAM]

During Cold war lots of tension rose ya see, and people were scared of WORLWAR 3 except using nukes lol. So i ve forgotten the word...stalemate is it?
Cos if ONLY 1 person has nukes then its fucked up cos basically they have ultimate powere and can use them without fear of retaliation.
BUT if america AND USSR (we have to stop calling it russia in those days) had Nukes then Both would never use them with fear of a NUCLEAR war.
Now days, so many countrys have them that they are just there for threats, and assurance.
Yeh that plane thing rings a bell for me 2, wouldn't surprise me lol. Stalin was 1 fucked up man. They are trying to calculate who killed more people, HITLER or STALIN and guess what........Stalin is in the lead i think.
Yeh i ve seen loads of his planes that he made. He made the biggest plane in the world capable of carrying about 10 tanks, about 20 squads of fully equipped blokes etc. Its used ground effect to fly over the sea and STILL be efficient even with such a big load. It could slo land on the sea.
After a while russia found out that with stalin gone, and Communism degrading their economy couldn't sustain all these massive military operations and projects without massive side effects (poverty lol)
You lot heard of the Dock in north russia (kusk, or kronstat) and it has hundreds of nuclear submarines just ROTTING away just wating to blow up lol.

[El_Fonzo]

Ah yes, the Americans like to think that dealt the Soviet Union the killer blow by supporting the overthrowal of Afghanistan(In 87 i think), when it was the fact that the economy and very infrastructure of the SU was rotten to the core. They simply couldn't carry on funding these projects and behaving like a super power as you said.

[paroles]

going back to wat james sed, about using nukes as a deterant. its getting a bit ridiculous now we went to c a nuclear sub in france ((ther even lettin the french have nukes!!!!!!!! thts insane)) it had 16/8 nukes and it only fired all at once it couldn't just fire one and the combined result is twice as much explosive power as all the explosives used in ww2 put together!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! now puttin tht sort of power in the hands of the french! wat is the world cumin 2!??

[ghost]

The french, what the fuck can they do with a nuke Jack batty shiraque will do nowt for shit and then they'll get invaded by the Germans again. Don't give the nukes to a peaceful nation, they'll just waste good science.

Saying that nukes shouldn't have been used in WW2.

[paroles]

yeh but sum1 will say tht jack shiraq is annoyin the french'll go off on 1 attack britain with their 170,000 strong army and their nukes we will wreck so badly then they'll go all bitter and hold a gruge! its just war dont get all upset about it!

[ghost]

;D
wars a pretty big thing mate.

Anyway the French couldn't be trusted with anything, look whats happened to beef.

[Wardy]

wtf how come u 2 aint in school?

[ghost]

We're in the library.

[paroles]

fair enuff! but the french made a huge massive billion franc defensive line in ww1 or 2 i cant remember and wat did the germans do?? they went around it! the french cant b trusted the germans were amazing after ww1 but b4 tht they sucked end of!

[Suicdal_Maniac]

it was ww2 they made it for, and yes they didnt even think about the possibiliy the germans would find a route around it and then attack from the back :rolleyes: tards.

[DAM]

Wasn't their fault. It was called the "Maginot Line" that thing was (if manned) IMPOSSIBLE to pass. But their treaty with belgium meant they had to stop the line when it bordered Belgium, because the bum boys wouldn't let em.
BUT 1 mistake the french made was to think the germans would NEVER try and make a push through the Ardennes forest (which they did).
also they undermanned the maginot line